All right. Peter Wiseman, I want to thank you again for taking some time out of your day to join me for this conversation about healthy aging and cannabis use. I know your background, you served and not necessarily in Vietnam, but during the Vietnam War, you've been educated for many years, you have focused on staying healthy, and we don't have a lot of data right now on the aging population and cannabis use, and nor do we really have any experts I know of them. I thought I'd be great just to talk to maybe one or two people here in Boulder about their thoughts when it comes to aging and staying healthy and cannabis use, whether it's CBD or some combination of THC and CBD. So maybe you can just jump in and maybe tell me a little bit about your history and how you view cannabis. Sure. So I'm 72 years old. I had a very active life, I've been skiing since I was very young, I played soccer, and just married to a writer. So we're very active people in our retirement. You're right, I was trained actually as a combat medic. So I had a little bit about medical background, although I worked in orthopedics during the Vietnam War in the evacuation system for those fellows that had been hurt. Actually, it's been useful for me because I have had four knee replacement. So because of my orthopedic and medical background, I have a little bit of a sense of what that's all about. So in terms of my cannabis use, certainly as a child and during the Vietnam War and all of those times, I used some cannabis back there in recreational sense. When I got in, I worked in the school district here in Boulder for close to 30 years, probably more than that if you consider at the times I went back and helped out. But it was during that time that I used no Cannabis at all, mostly because some of my responsibilities had to do with kids and drugs. So I felt it was a little strange for me to be using it and also being responsible for monitoring it. So anyway my wife and I spent 30 years for the Boulder Valley schools and then we retired, and then we had some other jobs and some things we were doing, but we really wanted to begin traveling a lot more. So we suddenly stopped being on the board of this and that or doing this, and we started traveling more and more. That really involved cycling and hiking. About 12 years ago, so in my early '60s, I started upgrading knee number one. They replaced it and it was a wonderful, and I continued to hike and probably abused the heck out of my knee, still skiing and doing all of those things. Then, they did knee number two on the left side and that is a great thing. I must admit. But in the meantime, 10 years later, knee number one began to have problems, and so they had to redo that. So the last year since October of 2017, I had been in quite a bit of pain and rehabbing. I still have a month to go, in the newbie that they put in three months ago. So anyway, that's where I am. What led me to the cannabis area, it was certainly in my '60s about, so we started having a fair amount of pain as I was maintaining my activity levels riding, and cycling, and walking. I found that CBD, it was a very helpful medication for me and I felt at the time moving into it, that it was safer. If I was going to be managing this on a long-term basis for me to be taking CBD or CBG, you'd see some combination of that, then taking anti-inflammatory, and some pain meds, and narcotics, which I have many and could use many, but I was really worried about what that does to liver and other things. So that's why I landed I think on the medical marijuana and the CBD things. So for me, it's enabled me to keep walking and to keep cycling. Particularly, in the last year and a half domain managed to serve the last knee. So that's a history of the whole thing I think. Also, just a back up a second to make sure I understand how long have you been using then the cannabinoids as a way to manage some of the pain inflammation? I would say probably 10 or 11 years. Yeah. Wow. So obviously you must have fine-tuned it during that time or maybe, did it change a little bit in terms of like because obviously you're- Some level change in my body. I work with a Dr. Koh in the local physician in town who we talk once or twice a year. So we talk about how I managed, again about how I'm getting it into my body, and all of those things. But I know it's been a fairly long time. In the day, there's a rhythm to it, and usually my mornings are probably with nothing and the afternoon. Then maybe some CBD in the afternoons depending on what's going on, and then in the evening when nothing's going on I might relax with a little bit more of a CBD-THC mix. Then THC piece of it, for me, I used to describe it as it's a dissociative property. I can take some THC if I'm vaping it or whatever, and in a short amount of time, the pain will still be there and more disassociated from that pain. So that's specifically how it works with my physical makeup and it's a wonderful thing. So I tend to, if I'm doing a lot of hiking or something like that, it's equally, it's good to have a little CBD, but it's also good to have some dissociated properties for that THC. So that's in general. Yeah. Certainly, we've taught them in class about that we haven't really nailed down the mechanism yet in terms of the analgesics parts or in this case maybe there's a different process. Something else is going on with the cannabidoism of THC specifically, and the dissociative thing you talked about. Other people talked about too, right? Isn't necessarily work the same as- You've heard that before Kent? That dissociated property? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think it's something that scientists are interested in figuring this out like how jackley does it work, right? It doesn't seem this later work the same way as other analgesics. So the question is, is there psychological contribution there in this dissociative thing? I think people have talk about that, and the research is ongoing. So at least alone, I think quite know exactly how it works. But what you're seeing resonates with what we've seen in the literature too. Yeah. The other [inaudible] some solvent stuff about CBD too, shoulders and knees. In general, I think I don't get as much abounds from that perhaps or a good feeling for most. My wife does with the knee, that she used to say [inaudible]. But still, I think it's helpful. Yeah. I think this is really where we're at right now too. There's so many preparations out there in terms of especially CBD. Of course, the convenient thing for the people who are selling it is that you're good to go nationwide with CBD. The marketing of this is definitely gone beyond the science when it comes to topicals. So we know all people swear by them, but honestly, there's not a lot of DVS. So we're waiting to see how that pans out and even with the oral CBD. With your CBD, is it oral that you take CBD or? Well, I use those little gummies that Wanda makes and sometimes I use a combination of that. There's a one-to-one mix that they have of that, that's pretty good. They have something like a 20 to one CBD to THC. My understanding about CBD, which is why when I get it from Dr. Cohen it has no THC in it at all which is what's marketed. But my understanding is that you need a touch-up THC to activate that CBD to have it more effective. So I try to have some little piece of THC to boost that, but I'm not certain. I'm making this up exactly like most of us I think so. I think that's a really important question too. The combination and what it means and of course, what is the best combination? All right. So in a state like Colorado, you can get any combination. You can get as you said one-to-one. The same company makes 20 to one, 10 to one. So what is the most effective combination? We have no idea. Of course, that's something that we're trying to figure out in our research. We're definitely testing different combinations. Actually, I should say it's really three combinations right now. It's one-to-one, versus CBD, versus THC. But also, soon we'll be looking more broadly at some combinations in between those things. So yeah, I think everybody is trying to figure out what exactly is going on, because people like you want to know what is the most effective. If I could tell you that there was four solid studies that suggested five-to-one is the ratio that leads to the best amount of pain and in the best pain control, I assume you would be very happy that somebody can tell you that, right? Right. That's where we are at, is we're trying to figure this out. Just to figure out. Because I was down. I was thinking of the milligrams as well and body weight and all those things because it's so insanely complex and levels of you. So I keep mine very personally and meet out advice carefully because as you know everybody is different. So I'm curious of one thing. Over the 10 years, it's a long time, have you defect you develop tolerant, are you using the same levels you mentioned milligrams? Yeah, I have to tell you. In my early days when I was a kid, I was a social user. I'm almost totally a medical marijuana user right now. I have a couple of friends that we might smoke a joint, go for a walk, or something like that. But typically or maybe at a party or something like that, a coupled that would go out maybe in the back. But I really don't get a sense. I think my tolerance level is such that I don't really feel a buzz or high even from THC around here, and the THC around here is pretty good. In the end, over the years, I believe it just evened to me out in general, and I don't know how else to describe it. People would not think that I've been smoking dope all day long. I mean, I just don't have that sense anymore. Yeah, that's a good point here. The other thing that we're trying to figure out too is how age placement. This because it's pretty clear that the risks, and you were an educator, the risk for young people are pretty high, right? Very high. Yeah. Yeah, but the risks for older people and the risk-benefit ratio changes as you age, right? Yes. That seems to be pretty clear. Yeah. I was curious even in the last year or two. If people have to take more to get the same pain relief. You get pretty much what you're taking a year ago is that you're taking now for pain reliever or has it changed over time. Is it pretty similar or different? I don't think it slowly increases, I think it goes like this, If you will. I think it goes up and down. It's not a linear path of increasing. I mean, for me, I weighed about 185 or 190 pounds, five milligrams of Indica will probably put me to sleep, or maybe 10 milligrams will probably put me to sleep. That's about even. But some people make 30 or 40. So I don't know that I've exponentially grown, but I think there are times when it's useful to have more in my body than less, I guess, that's. That make sense too because obviously, the pain and inflammation because have been known too. Depending on what you're doing, and how the knee's healing, or whatever your PTA, or whatever you did that day, it makes some sense that it would be. But definitely, yeah, what you said five to 10 makes sense to me too because that's the level of people. That's a pretty modest level, I mean. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, my goal is do the minimum and maintain my healthy lifestyle, and strike me in all those things. So I think. So do you think it plays an important role in terms of getting back out on the bike and hiking? Yeah, I know it does. I mean, I'm more comfortable if I'm going, and I had been on crutches for most of last year. So it's been hard to get my exercise in. I'm either a walker or a cyclist. So I'm lifting. But if I'm going to go out with my crutches or not I go for a mile or two walk, if I have just one little toke of CBD, THC blend or something, just one, it will make my height exponentially more comfortable. It doesn't leave at last that long, but it'll get me back. So it's a pretty nice thing, and it's not an Advil or two Advils or three Advils. I'm hoping, we're all gamblers here, I'm hoping that it's a little safer for me. It makes a lot of sense. Obviously, I'm thinking. I'm concerned too. My Advil use has gone up pretty dramatically as the pain in the knees it goes up. We ought to think about what are the costs and benefits and whether it's Advil, or it's opioids, or is cannabis. Everybody wants to weigh the risks and benefits. We wanted to take what's best not just for now, but for the long run. If healthy aging is your goal, right. That's what you want to know. Yeah. The whole narcotics story and all of that is really sad for me. It's just very sad because there are so many people who I believe cannabis can be very effective and they're not get that. So it's unfortunate. So I mean, I hardly endorse and respect the work that you're doing because I think it's going to open up. In the morning, I talked to my Dr. Cohen, I love the man, but he thinks it's a cure for everything under the sun and I'm there, but not quite as he is. But I know that the work that you guys are doing is going to pay off for the next generation. Absolutely. Actually it felt really good to hear you say that. So thank you for saying that. I hope so too. Obviously, we want to help people, right? Yeah. So it's very important. So well, let me just thank you again for taking the time. This is like it was a random thing for me to take contact you and try and set this up. You've been very gracious with your time, and I really appreciate it. Yeah, holler. I'm very supportive in. If you need anything else you let me know already, Kent. That it's good to talk. It's actually instructive for me to chit chat with you about it because I don't talk to a lot of people about. I love to see your dad actually and find out how other people are using it, and not because they are going to have users groups. I suppose they do, but that'd be an interesting concept. Yeah, totally. That's a definite. Let's plan catching up soon. All right. You have a good weekend. Yeah, you too. Bye. Bye.
